Saturday, March 17, 2012

Review of Chuck Missler at the Red River Prophecy Conference by Pastor Glenn A. Knudson

[I am sharing these observations of Chuck Missler's recent talk because I caught part of it as it as streamed and this pastor put it better than I could since science is not my strength. I agree with him that Missler's teachings are NOT biblical and that Missler has himself crossed the line into fables and science so-called.- Jackie]

Review of Chuck Missler at the Red River Prophecy Conference 
by Pastor Glenn A. Knudson

I have been able to listen to all of the first talk by Chuck Missler, Macrocosm, and most of the second talk, Microcosm (which he also added Metacosm at the end). He taught exactly what I thought he would teach and why I did not want our fellowship to support the conference because of him.

Macrocosm- 
1. He started the talk with the "erroneous" preconceptions we have "Especially in the area of science" 
     a. we have misconceptions about science 
     b. we have misconceptions about reality 

He defined macrocosm as all things larger than ourselves and that it is "the limits to largeness" and "our finite boundaries" 

Einstein was the first to give us the concept of time as the fourth dimension and that there is no distinction between time and space.

He then introduced his concept of a ten dimensional universe where Einstein had stopped at four but "knew" there were more (He expands the teaching on ten dimensions in his Micro/Metacosm talk).

He then mentions the states in which matter can be found solid,liquid,gas and super gas (or plasma) He makes a statement that you need to listen to the words he uses "that as a plasma gases function as a unified "organism" (I always was taught organisms are living things and the Bible is specific in its definitions of life and the that man is unique from plant and animal life and that gases have no life).

He then makes a statement I believed is to diffuse anyone who would dare speak against what he is teaching, "The only barrier to truth is the presupposition you already have it." (How could I as a non-scientist question Chuck's findings and say I am because I view the Word of God as my final authority for truth that if what he "finds" does not align with God's Word it must be non-truth or by definition a lie). 

He then makes another statement that he bases a lot of his teaching on " where metaphors reign, mysteries begin" The only problem is Chuck is enamored with what I view as "occultic and gnostic" mysteries and the Word of God tells us the Lord has revealed what we are to know and concealed what we are not. It appears Chuck wants to peel back the what God has concealed using what Paul referred to in his letter to Timothy as "science so called" based on supposition, speculation, mysticism, and the word of mystics.

He then talked about the fractured universe. He stated because of sin and that the six upper dimensions have been fractured from the four lower dimensions. He then described the universe as being a digital universe (this prepares you for the next talk where he will reveal that "everything" is really a digital simulation in the form of a hologram. (This is disturbing because he has just laid the ground work for agreeing with the eastern mystics who have told us for centuries that everything is an illusion and that like a hologram, all things are one and even though you think you separate things you never can because everything is one. God's Word does not state all things are one and it is not what I think or perceive that determines reality, but the transcendent God who created and established all things. Does Chuck Missler understand where the logic of this teaching leads? That is calls us to pantheism and that we are one with God. The atonement becomes the AT-ONE-MENT and reality and the authority of God has effectively been destroyed)

Chuck then closed by leaving everyone with the teaser for his next session of New Spirituality indoctrination by stating that we cannot find infinity and this has been discovered by two things: 
     1. We have found the outer boundaries of the universe so it has boundaries above 
     2. We have discovered something at the sub-atomic particle level using quantum physics that there comes a point where all things lose locality and become "unified" in location and communication. As above so below (my words) but we now have discovered the "boundaries" to our reality. 

Microcosm/Metacosm- 

Chuck starts his talk by stating it is really about "REAL" science vs. bad science. Although in typical Chuck Missler fashion he never gives definition to terms, you are left to conclude that "REAL" science is his version and interpretation and bad science would be science done by groups such as ICR where Dr. John Morris on Science, Scripture & Salvation recently stated there are those that in the name of science are proclaiming that our universe consists of ten dimensions, but this is based not on good science but on gnostic and mystic teachings. (Some of Chuck's main sources and conclusions on this topic are based upon mystic 13th century Jewish Rabbis and Hindu Mystic Dr. David Bohm. I think Chuck really should begin to examine good and bad science in light of the reality of that which we know is true, the Word of God.) 

Chuck Missler then makes a sweeping statement which in my opinion does two things: 
     1. Enables him to divorce himself from the authority of scripture when it comes to interpretations of quantum physics 
     2. Allows him to draw conclusions with absolutely NO empirical evidence to back him up. 

He states there are "NO ABSOLUTES" at the sub-atomic or quanta level and that we no longer can have the perceptions we once had as "nothing is real" HE HAS JUST DESTROYED GOD!!!! He then recreates God by stating that at the sub-atomic particle level all things are connected, not merely in locality but in communication. He states it is hard for us to conceive but you can take two quarks and separate them by the expanse of the universe and yet they will communicate with one another. God has just been redefined and all of his creation has become one with the creator BUT NOT THROUGH THE BLOOD OF CHRIST!! 

He then began his trail of "experts" that allowed him to arrive at these conclusions. It begins with a 13th century Jewish rabbi named Nachmonides who determined from studying Genesis that there are ten dimensions. (What Chuck failed to mention in this talk, but what he has revealed elsewhere and information that you can discover on your own, that Nachmanides was a kabbalic mystic Jew who looked far outside the Word of God to interpret the Word of God. This is the foundation that he lays for his version of quantum physics, boundaries of reality and interpretation of our existence. He spent time on building the concept of particle-anti-particle and it was here I was interrupted and had to leave for about 1/2 hour. 

When I came back he had just started on "Metacosm" 

He introduced this portion of the talk by stating" We really are a "virtual simulated" digital environment and to discuss our existence is the whole concept of the metacosm. He stated we are a "Hyper-dimensional" universe that manifests itself in the form of hologram. He then introduces Dr. David Bohm as the originator of the understanding that we live in a holographic universe. He  stated that God is the creator of this holographic universe. He then proceeds to exaggerate and make sweeping statements that are not backed up by any empirical science. He will say things like " Both astrophysicists and the quantum physicists now tell us..." (He leads you to believe the majority is in agreement with his position when in fact many do not hold Dave Bohm and his holographic universe in the same regard as Chuck Missler does.)

Chuck Missler teaches the six dimensions outside our experience are "curled." (How do we know this or empirically prove it outside of mathematical theory?) It was then taught that our universe is but a shadow of the larger reality (no Biblical context or scientific empirical discovery just a sweeping statement of set the stage. Chuck shared that there are "hints" in Paul's Epistle to the Romans, that lead him to suspect the original creation was "fractured" as a result of the curse in Genesis 3." He has a great ability to introduce a topic as a concept and by three or four sentences later what was a concept or theory has now become a fact!!

He concluded his talk with the David Bohm's concepts that (1) at the sub-atomic particle level location as we know it ceases to exist
and (2) all is an illusion, specifically in the form of a hologram. 


Chuck states that we live in a 3D virtual world that manifests itself as a hologram (thus by definition of a hologram you can see in one particle what is the whole -so you can see by extension of logical outcome of this thought, that you find all of God in the smallest quark or in the universe itself. God is all so all is in God.) 

He then talked about the dilemma of our reality which is our blindness . This will ultimately result in the secret of God's judgment. (Why the esoteric way of always presenting the state of man- why not just say what the Bible says).

I see that all Chuck's dancing with the mystics and stating that this is the "REAL SCIENCE" lays groundwork for his view of angels, UFO's, time travel, and ability to communicate across time etc,etc. which God warns us LEAVE ALONE and DO NOT BECOME INVOLVED WITH. 

At the close the chairman of the committee thanked Chuck for coming and then said we all need to be Bereans and examine the things Chuck said in light of scripture but then stated that it is said that there are those who because of fear, of judgment, and a lack of understanding and preconceived ideas have chosen to not support Chuck. In other words, if you do what he told you to and examine what Chuck taught in light of scripture and found it lacking, you better not say anything for if you do, you are a judgmental, closed minded, fearful person who is unwilling to discover the boundaries of our reality.

DISTURBING, DISTURBING, DISTURBING.

What is Chuck's purpose in exaggeration, twisting of what is good and bad science and laying an eastern mystic view of reality? As those in the audience had their eyes glossing over with physics 101, they were having their perception of God and His Word torn, destroyed and replaced with an eastern mystic one.

Let me know if you think I am fearful, closed minded and judgmental because I am really concerned about the GLORY of GOD and the upholding of HIS WORD.

--Pastor Glenn A. Knudson
Cornerstone Baptist Church

20 comments:

  1. Thanks Glenn. I really appreciate your post. I know virtually nothing about physics and what Missler stated, whether or not it was true or not.

    I could not apply Acts 17:11 to his presentation, since it didn't come from the bible. Sad day. Thanks for the truth that was missing!

    Seth Wetter

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  2. YOU are a Berean; Chuck Missler is an apostate and a flake. He's been going down a freaky path for a long time now so this is just the natural progression of someone who's chosen to cling to science fiction nonsense and abandon the sure Word of God. Thanks for letting us know about this development.

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  3. The universe being made up of ten dimensions comes from a mathematical construct called Calibi-Yau. This construct is used by physicists as a model of the smallest constituents of matter, with remarkable success - i.e. they do the calculation, get the result, compare against how the universe works at the scale of the very small and find a match.

    The idea that the universe is hologramatic is something I've found hard to grasp, though I've read quite a bit about it. The word in physics has a specific mathematical meaning, related to how three dimensional information is encoded in two dimensions in a hologram. It DOES NOT mean that the world doesn't really exist or is illusory.

    The physics arising from Calibi-Yau are not currently amenable to direct physical testing. The Hologramatic theory is testable, but it'll be a while.

    Quantum mechanics is one of the most accurate theories ever devised by the mind of man. Without it, we would not have any of the electronics we have today. It's vital for the calculations that are used in the manufacture and development of computer chips and other products of the modern age. The ambiguous nature of particles at the smallest levels is well attested. Quantum entanglement (two quarks being connected at some level no matter what the separation) is also well attested and in use - right now - in secure banking communication.

    Having not attended the conference, I can only critique what Mr Knudson has written, not what Mr Missler said. I'd never heard of Mr Missler before reading this blog. However, while mystics, flakes, astrologers, new agey types love to use the more extraordinary scientific theory to back up their ideas, from what is presented above, I don't really see any evidence that he's going in that occultic direction.

    At worst, Mr Missler - based on this report - is guilty of presenting some speculative science as fact, and misunderstanding the import of some other facets of physics.

    What seth358 say is correct. Acts 17:11 cannot be applied, as this science does not come from the Bible. Neither does the science that supports your Satnav (GPS). But you still rely on it.

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    1. Matt, thanks for your astute and obviously incisive commentary regarding Chuck Missler's scientific speculations. If that were the only problem, you would be quite correct. However, the only thing Mr. Missler offers IS speculation, and that presented as scientific and spiritual fact. Lee S.

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  4. Thank you for posting this excellent critique. I've long had concerns with Chuck Missler, but I've always been dismissed as one of those close-minded, judgmental people who just don't get it.

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  5. Keep things like this coming, please. I too have been often labeled as ridiculous for exposing the teachings of Chuck Missler. May the Lord Jesus Christ bring truth to light and expose the darkness.

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  6. Thank you, Matt, for your excellent post. Imagine 300 years ago explaining to people that we would some day fly thousands of miles an hour in a combat jet or fly to the moon in a manned vehicle all based on science that was not even discovered yet. Or that people would carry a small device held in the hand that would enable them to talk to someone in China, check out all the restaurants in a town, or know what the weather was going to be for the next week all in a matter of seconds. People would have thought you to be a kook. I'm wondering, Pastor Knudson, if your concerns, rather than being based on a knowledge that Chuck is indeed departing from scripture, are not based on a lack of real understanding of the science behind Chuck's statements (I know he loses me very quickly when he begins to expound in this realm of science). But does our lack of understanding of the science in this realm automatically make Chuck wrong or justify the hints that he is going down occult paths, etc? I first heard some of Chuck's teaching well over 30 years ago and have heard him preach very sound biblical teaching on many topics in the years since. I may not agree with everything he says (I don't) and I may not understand the concepts of quantum physics (they are way over my head), but I have never heard Chuck use these presented concepts to in any way undermine or discredit what the Word of God says. Rather, his approach would be to show how these concepts back up what the Word of God has been saying all along. Is he tons smarter than me? Yes. Does he have everything right? No. But, I believe Chuck to be a diligent student of the Word and most of what he teaches is both sound and edifying. Thank you.

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  7. For me the question that must be asked is this the gospel as revealed in the scriptures. When men, in my opinion, have to go into deep scholorship and try to relate their scientific knowledge to the Bible I think they are losing the point. Finding and knowing Christ is a faith issue. Incorporating all of this science and physics only contributes to a misunderstanding rather than leading others to Christ.

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  8. Wow, I hadn't really thought of it this way. I have been listening to Chuck on a daily basis now for four years. I can tell you that if you don't understand the science behind what he is saying, he understands it. It is tough science to grasp. I have an engineering degree which means I have had rigorous mathematics and an introduction to advanced physics. This stuff is difficult to get your mind around. Chuck likes to say, "Only small children and physicist with advanced degrees can under stand it." There is the concept in Ephesians 3:18 that says "May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height." What is that fourth dimension? I think Chuck has an adequate explanation for it with the ten dimensional theory. Where is the spirit world? Well it is not on this earth. The Bible is not explicitly clear on everything of science. Science is not explicitly clear on everything of the spirit world.

    I will say this. I think Chuck would be proud of what was written here. He challenges everyone who listens to him to check him out. If you only take his world you have "flunked the course". I don't think it would be proper to mark him as an apostate. He preaches and teaches the Bible. He is consistent with his hermeneutics. It is obvious he has a very deep walk with God from listening to his prayers and reading his newsletter.

    Is it frightening? Of course. And God did say to stay away from certain areas and I think he has. I want to know where it says that we can't explore our universe? Deuteronomy 18 only says that we are not to practice certain satanic practices such as consulting spirits. This says nothing about studying Atoms and quarks. In fact in the book of Job, God gives Job a science exam. He flunked it because he didn't know the answers. Just showing that there is still stuff out there that we have not figured out yet.

    Keep up the good work Jackie.

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    1. Thanks Matt, Ron and Tim. Colossians 1:15, 16, esp.17. There is a distance between the smallest sub-atomic particles that cannot be explained without the ..."and in him all things hold together."

      Lynell Anderson

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  9. This is totally biased. The Bible does not say that we should not study science or angels or demons, etc.
    The Bible said not to WORSHIP them or follow doctrines of witchcraft. Studying the world around us is in no way labelled as witchcraft or evil according to scripture. As a matter of fact, God said to LEARN MORE about his creation.

    And yes, we are all a part of God. Demons, angels, the Earth, particles, everything. We call come from the same source. Does that mean that everything in creation is Holy like it's creator? Absolutely not. But the question of where the energy came from to create all things and WHO created all things is very obvious, if you look at scripture. All things ARE bonded together in a specific way. This is in no way heresy or blasphemy.

    A hologram is not an illusion. Holograms are just generated images. Chuck's analogy was inferring that what we see here on Earth with our physical eyes is merely a shadow of all the dimensions and spiritual realms that we CANNOT see. The realms are indeed "fractured," as we cannot travel freely between the spiritual realm and the physical realm.
    We cannot do the things we were MADE to do originally.
    This much is obvious.
    This is a very poor example of "Eastern Mysticism" if ever I saw one

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  10. http://science.discovery.com/videos/through-the-wormhole-does-time-exist/

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  11. I am only reminded of what Paul say's in Romans "Professing themselves to be wise they became fools" Rom. 1:22 I do not believe that everything in this world can or will be known, if we did know it (everything) we would have the knowledge of God (be as God?) Thank you for your insight's

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  12. I appreciate the views of the pastor, but I believe he's mischaracterized where Missler is going with all this. I've had occasion to interview Missler face to face a couple of times and have listened to much of his teaching on the "holographic universe" concept. He doesn't suggest that this is a supplement or an alternative to sound Christian doctrine; his purpose, unless I completely missed it, is that modern physics (contrary to the beliefs of most of those in the field), rather than denying the existence of God or proving the spiritual interconnectedness of all things, actually points to the Creator of all things, Yahweh, who spoke all into existence.

    If it sounds weird, it's because *physics* is weird. Put the "science fiction" label, if you must apply it, on the researchers who conduct experiments that suggest the existence of entangled pairs or the inconstancy of the speed of light. But denying the results of those experiments won't make them go away.

    To the best of my understanding, Chuck Missler is simply showing that science proves the truth of the Bible.

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  13. Science has recently proven that we do indeed live in a digitized universe. http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/10/11/physicists-may-have-evide_n_1957777.html

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  14. For if anyone thinks he is something when he is nothing, he deceives himself. -Galatians 6:3

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  15. Criticism of Dr. Missler without first confronting him with his error are not within the scripture either (James 5:19). You're certainly not suggesting that Dr. Missler is not born again or are you? I would suggest that only God knows for sure as is the case with anyone. I have taken a number of courses from Koinonia Institute, and while I have not agreed with all the conjectures, CM always identifies those as such. If one says he does not make conjectures, then I would suggest that one needs to examine themselves before criticizing others. Chuck Missler also always taught 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 as well as Acts 17:11. The book of Job is replete with the identification of at least 15 sciences of study today identified in the oldest book in the Bible. The aforementioned Ephesians 3:18 is a science statement whether Paul meant it to be or not. The Colossians account of "And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist", implies that Jesus Christ made all things that hold the universe together and the sciences within. I would just suggest that if you knew the heart of CM, you might know that his number 1 ministry is to spread the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ. I find very little room in this for any criticism of one brother to another. Perhaps the grace and mercy you desire, you might consider exercising the same to Chuck Missler. Evangelist and Preacher Gary Hill

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  16. A few years ago when I received the K House newletter with the Hologram Universe I immediatedly saw it as eastern mysticism recycled as psudo science. I couldn't believe Missler was taken in by this. As I can see from many comments he has succeeded in convincing many that he is a not only an expert on the subject but also has proven this "theory" by the Word of God. It all comes down to a mind game that has been practiced by mystics of different eastern religions throughout the ages. Am I closed minded? Not at all. I examine what God has written and weigh it against what man has discoved and make my decisions.
    Example: Darwinin Evolution. There is no doubt that this is another Delusion to deceive mankind in this the end time and Missler is deceived and is deceiving others. Christians,like the world,cannot discern between Matrix fantasy and the truth of God's Word.Isit any wonder that there are so many false teachers poluting the minds of gullable people with itching ears in this the end of the age?
    Rom 1:22
    Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools

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  17. I encourage everyone to test everything with the word of God, rather than compare it to other things, to determine if it is truth or not. Do the things Chuck Missler says contradict the word of God? I havent found anything yet. Does the science he talks about back up the word of God rather than go gainst it? Yes. Also we must remember, Satan uses truth and then twists it in order to deceive. Most religions have a bit of truth in them along with the lies. Just because what Chuck Missler says may seem to be similiar to some aspects of eastern religion does not arbitrarily mean he is wrong. what it does mean is that we need to look closer at what he is saying. Is it possible that since what he is saying is backed by science, and also does not contradict the word of God(but even is biblical), that maybe the similarity to anything another religion might say is because that religion in question may just have that one aspect of truth? It is possible. And yet you say, "the mainstream church has never taught the things he is saying!" Well just because the mainstream church has not taught it, or if it even condemns it, does that mean what he says is wrong? No. Remember, Martin Luther had views that although he could back up with scripture, went against what the mainstream church of his day taught. Also, could the church have taught all of the things Chuck Missler talks about at any other point in history? No, because we as a culture didnt have the science to understand these things yet. Now that we do understand some of these things, we need to look at the word of God and determine if the science corroborates it, and is corroborated by it. And as far as the things that I have heard Chuck Missler teach, my answer to that question is usually yes. Do any of you on here have the knowlege and understanding of the science or the word of God as far as the original languages that Chuck has? Its possible but I doubt it. Usually if I come across someone with much more knowledge and wisdom in certain areas than I have, and they dont disagree with the scripture, and even corroborate, it, I tend to take a close look at what they are saying, even if it seems odd, even if it is not what the mainstream church teaches, and even if I dont as of yet fully understand it. I challenge you all to do the same instead of blindly calling out an apostate simply because what someone says is new to you.

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  18. You all need to listen to more of what Chuck is teaching and escape your narrow views.

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